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    FOR CHAOS !!!! AND THE DARK GODS!!!

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    hellboy

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    FOR CHAOS !!!! AND THE DARK GODS!!!

    Mensagem por hellboy em Qui Jul 26, 2012 4:23 pm

    Eis alguns rumores Very Happy


    Release date - 1st September (7 weeks he said) and it is a hard back like the 8e WFB Army Books.

    There is an Eye of the Gods esque table (Warriors of Chaos players will know what I am talking about) that you get to roll on whenever a character kills another character in a challenge, or a Walker or Monstrous Creature. There is a multitude of gifts (and curses) that your Characters can acquire which range from +1 Save, +1 Toughness, or becoming either a Spawn or a Daemon Prince!!!

    Chaos Cultists are definetely in (but we all kinda know that already), as is the 'Dragon' - think Necron Night Scythe with the main chassis been replaced by a massive mechanical dragon head with segmented wings sweeping forward and around from it. On top of those there are also:

    Dark Apostles - evil Chaplains basically
    Warp Smiths - evil Techmarine that can curse vehicles and degrade terrain.
    A new Daemon Engine - half way between a Dreadnought and a Defiler.
    Speaking of Defilers as they are Daemons they have a 5+ Inv save.
    'Cult' units are all Elites and are unlocked to Troops by appropriate HQ choices, but there are no Cult Terminators which makes me sad.
    Obliterators are exclusively for shooting - so no powerfists. BUT there is a new unit which is basically a close combat Obliterator.
    There are 2 types of Raptors now; regular CSM with Jump Packs, and then some kind of Possessed Daemonic Raptors that all come with Lightning Claws!
    Possessed are meant to be amazing, and take a lot of benefits from the Eye of the Gods esque table.
    There are NO Daemons in the Codex because that is what Allies are for.


    –Important Designer Note–

    The new CSM codex is not a return to the 3rd edition codex, this is the successor to Gav Thorpe’s creation– the current CSM codex. Unlike before Phil Kelly was put in charge of building from the ground up; Space Wolves, Dark Eldar, and Orks codexes he instead has taken a much more subtle approach with the CSM Codex. This is not the reinvention of the wheel at its core this is a validation for Gav Thorpe and perhaps if you could ask Gav, Phil Kelly’s CSM codex would have been the codex he wished he could have written, but wasn’t allowed to.

    –What will be Released–

    We will know if GW has changed policy. This codex will reveal if GW has abandoned the wave method to model release with a new codex or if they have stopped caring and show you all the new models even if they don’t come out right away.

    Finecast: Dark Apostle, Warsmith, New Lord, Oblits, All Old Special Characters not updated already

    New Plastic: Dragon, Raptors, Dreadnaught, Demon Engine, Assault Oblits, Chosen

    Upgrade Packs: Plague Marines, 1k Sons, Emperor’s Children

    –General Changes–

    Almost all of the old units are either the same point cost or have gotten cheaper. With the notable exceptions of Chosen, Terminators, Defilers getting more expensive. The notable cheaper ones being basic CSM, Oblits, Zerkers, The CSM is really an upgrade codex, while things have gotten cheaper you will be hard pressed to keep your units inexpensive with all the wargear you can add. The cheaper units doesn’t come without a cost as well, almost all units saw a LD drop. Also you will start to see a lot of the new USRs in the CSM book.

    –What has stayed the Same–

    The Cult units are the same in stats and basic wargear. No new Spacial Characters. Abbadon is still the only one with Eternal Warrior. Demon Weapons still can kill you. The Dreadnaught is still Crazy. The unit sizes have stayed the same as well as the wargear options found in the old codex; e.g. Chosen can still get a butt load special weapons.

    –Psychic Powers–

    As can you expect each Chaos God gives their chosen Sorcerer access to their own set of spells. That allows you to pick from Basic Spells and the new ones for each God. If anyone was wondering Lash of Submission is gone.

    Ok now that we got the basics out-of-the-way let us get to the good stuff

    –Daemons–

    A good number of units in the CSM codex have this USR.

    Raptors
    Oblits
    CC Oblit
    Defilers
    Demon Engines
    Dragons
    Possessed
    Demon Prince

    –It Will Not Die–

    Wonder who was getting this new USR well you guessed it CSM is.

    Dragons
    Defilers
    Demon Engines

    –Demon Possessed–

    Demon possessed just got a whole bunch cuter really. Instead of not being able to embark in demon possessed vehicles they now will only eat one of your guys and repair itself. Otherwise works the same way as before lose BS and ignore shaken and stunned, In addition some things get wargear automatically.

    Dragons
    Defliers
    Demon Engines

    –Challenges–

    All CSM characters must always accept challenges

    –Icons and Marks–

    Marks and Icons are both purchasable by most units. That means you have five new Icons and the same four marks, in which units can have a combination of two. This is a list of the USRs and stat bonus possible.

    Fearless
    FnP
    +1 T
    +1 Invul Save
    Rage
    Soul Blaze
    Furious Charge
    Fear
    +1 I

    –Space Marines Better Hide–

    Almost all CSM units get Hatred Space Marines. Now I am not sure if this includes all Space Marine variants or just Smurfs and friends.

    –Eye of the Gods Table–

    Yeah this will be the chart to end all charts and competitive players will cry everywhere because it is random. All 60+random abilities! Yes you heard it right over 60! How it works I don’t know, but characters can get multiple rolls on the chart through various methods.

    Time for some specific models right? Sure why not!

    –Dragon–

    Oh the Dragon yeah the model on everyone mind. This is a CSM answer to other flyers it is designed almost exclusively to hunt and destroy other flyers. Clocking in about the same points cost of Carnifex these little hell on wings Vector Strike and bring pain to a lot of things. Did I mention it gets to re-roll wounds and armor pens.

    –Demon Engines–

    The other mystery model that has been leaked. These guys sit on the large bases like Trygons. They have an assortment of special weapons that have never been seen before. They are designed for Building and Heavy armor destruction with Melta CC weapons and bonuses against buildings. They as well get to re-roll wounds and armor pens. Side note: Defilers as well get to re-roll wounds and armor pen.

    –Dragons, Demon Engines, Defilers oh my-

    So let me put this in perspective. All these models ignore shaken and stunned, have 5+ invul saves, re-roll wounds and armor pens, and can recover wounds and hull points lost.

    –Cult Units–

    I know much of the Internet was crying about them only being in the Elite slot when I first mentioned it. How dare they force me to take Kharn to spam Berserkers! Well don’t worry is not as bad as you think. You can also get a generic Lord and buy the correct mark and unlock them as troops as well. As for the rules themselves just minor changes.

    Zerkers: Rage, Cheaper
    1k Sons: Soul Fire, Same cost
    Emperor Children: Weapons Ignore cover and now have Salvo USR, Cheaper
    Plague Marines: Poison Weapons, More Expensive

    –Typhus and Cultists–

    Typhus is now a mastery level 2 sorcerer of Nurgle. In addition as reported earlier he can make any cultist a zombie. Zombies are going to be disgusting in 6th edition. FnP, Fearless, Fear, and all for no additional cost. As for Cultists they are cheap not conscript cheap, but close. You can get over 30 of them in a squad.

    –Daemon Princes, Sorcerers , Chaos Lords–

    Princes got more expensive wargear bringing them in line with the Demon Codex. Sorcerers are pretty much the same with the ability to buy up to Master level 3, but they only ever have 2 wounds. Chaos Lords are where it seems to be at, Phil Kelly wants you to design a Lord tailored to your army, their list of wargear options is easily the largest of any model in the book. Also remember they allow you to make Cult Units troops.

    Q:Noisemarine info and vehicle upgrades for slaanesh.

    A: Noise marines are overall a little bit cheaper. Sonic Blasters are 36" salvo now. Aspiring champions have access to a whip that prevents enemies from denying challenges. Other weapons are the same.

    Q: What are the God's specific new Psychic powers tables?
    Did the named characters get point cost reductions and/orcool new abilities?
    Any new character, maybe from the Horus Heresy series?

    A: Most named characters are the same, but overall a point reduction. Abbadon is the same points and does not make terminators troops.

    Q: Is it true that there are NO new Special/Named Characters? Are there any old Special Characters coming back from previous Codices?
    Are Noise Marines getting any new weapons/toys?
    Do Thousand Sons still require a Sorcerer upgrade?
    Can Predators, Land Raiders, or any other tanks take Sonic/Slaanesh upgrades?
    Is there anything in the Codex that changes how the Allies Matrix behaves (ie; turning Imperial Guard into Brothers in Arms)?

    A: There are no new named characters.
    Thousand Sons come with an Aspiring Sorcerer in their basic 5 before adding more Rubric marines.
    There is a sound-based vehicle upgrade but it's more of a Word Bearers item than Slaanesh.
    I haven't read any special character adjusting the allies chart.

    Q: How is GW representing specific gods in armies? Do you get point reductions on Slaanesh marks if your HQ has one?
    Do Sorcerers have good buff/debuff powers? AKA the better type of psychic powers.

    A: The only impact on Marks is that HQ models make corresponding cult units Troops.
    There are 2 debuff spells in Nurgle and Slaanesh, 2 buff spells in Slaanesh.

    Q: How did they fix posessed?
    Any new weapons options on the oblits?
    How does the rumored CC oblit work?
    What weapon options and cost do the cultists get?
    Any option for fast summoning the daemons from the chaos daemon codex (sacrifice rituals and stuff)?

    A: The "eye of the Gods" table is actually several tables. First you roll to see what table you roll on, then you roll what you get after winning a challenge, killing a monstrous creature or walker, or annihilating a unit in close combat.
    One of the tables is Daemonic Gifts.
    Possessed get to buy (not roll) up to 3 boons from the table.
    Cultists are 4 points each and come in squads of 10-30. They can have any combination of autoguns (str3 ap-) or auto pistol ccw (str 3 ap-)
    They can take special weapons, but not heavy weapons.
    they respond very well to dark apostles getting an extra benefit when one is in their unit.

    Q: Daemons weapons are AP? or Drach'nyen is AP2?

    A: Abadon is AP2, Daemon Weapons are AP3


    Q: Will Terminators be able to be given both marks and icons to essentially be cult terminators?

    A: Yes, but it's expensive. Taking both increases the cost of the second and Terminators pay more in the first place.


    Q: Is Khorne getting anything to combat the very shooty/psychic oriented 6th edition? As they are against using magic do they get anything to bring them up to the level of competitiveness psychic gods have?

    A: Skull Champions can take collars that give the squad and any vehicle it's embarked in a 5+ DtW

    Q: Dear honored guest, I'm going to ask some questions I think all CSM players want to know. Thank you so much for doing this!
    Is it true that you can mix and match Marks and Icons on various CSM units? For example, can you take +1T from Mark of Nurgle and the Icon that gives them FNP to essentially make Plague Marine Terminators?
    Is it true that if you take a Chaos Lord and give a specific mark (such as Mark of Slaanesh), you will be able to unlock Noise Marines as Troops?
    Lastly, and this one is more Legion specific because I'm a Death Guard player, but I hear Plague Marines are getting a points increase. Should I be worried? Are they going to be worth the points or will I find myself taking more basic CSM with Mark of Nurgle?

    A: You can mix/match Marks and Icons.
    +1T / FnP isn't as good as a Plague Marine, they're worth their points.
    HQ unlocks corresponding cult troop.

    Q: What initiative does kharn strike at and does he get anything new?

    A: Kharne strikes at initiative 5, and he gained armour bane which I guess is new. He's AP3, but for every model he kills (not wound inflicted) he makes an additional attack at initiative 1.
    Not quite the same as warrior born as it doesn't keep growing, but it's very devastating for someone with 8 attacks on the charge.

    Q: What is Kharns pyschic defense?

    A: 2+ Deny the witch

    Q: Will Khorne Berzerkers chain axes have any special rules, similar to power axes?

    A: khorne berserkers are AP5


    Q: Is there any fortifications available IN the codex you can select?

    A: There are no new fortifications but there is a unique upgrade to fortifications.


    Q: Are there still Havocs and can they still be unique in that they can use auto cannons?

    A: Havocs, CSM and chosen squads can take autocannons


    Q: Defilers: bigger? Meaner? More weapons? Other options? They are my favorite.
    How does demonic possession work now?

    A: They're the same except they have the Daemon special rule, 4 hull points and a 5+ invulnerable save.

    Q: I have a quick question? Will we be able to build a sonic landraider or a sonic tank? Will the Sonic weapong be finecast? and will we have mopre fluff on the Emperors childern?
    Also, the two Primarchs, that were whip out before the Hersy started? Were they the first to join Chaos?

    A: There is a sonic upgrade for tanks, but it's not a noise-marine thing.
    I don't know about upgrades being finecast. I know that there is intent to upgrade the basic CSM box to support all the cult troops to be able to achieve any of the weapon combinations from the entries (including everyone having soundblasters).
    No idea on the 2 primarchs.

    Q: Adding to the feeding frenzy
    What options are available to Raptors (jump troops) and the 'possessed raptors' that are mentioned. How do they differ?

    A: Raptors still have access to special weapons, only the aspiring champion can take special melee weapons. They are reduced in points.
    The Night Lord's raptors are a lot like vanguard (they cannot charge on deep strike though), but they have 2 attacks base + dual power weapons (ap3) with the shred special rule and are 35 points each.

    Q: I'd like to know the points cost of the 5 TS with sorcerer to see what the cost of the sorcerer is (basically is it a crazy amount of points and is it worth it...the current incarnation is rip-off central for what you get IMO).

    A: 150 points for 4 Rubric marines and 1 Aspiring Sorcerer.
    Unit size 4-19. 20 points per Rubric. Still slow and purposeful, unless the sorcerer is alive then relentless.

    Q: Great!! is a little cheaper, but the aspiring sorcerer still have to buy one power or he come with at least one?

    A: He gets a roll included.

    Q: Is it going to be as broke as Grey Knights?

    A: Having not had an extensive amount of time with the rules, from what I have read so far, there seems to be a theme of if you want it, you can have it, but you have to pay.
    Basic CSM squads actually end up cheaper than a tactical squad if they take only 2 special weapons and their aspiring champion has bp / ccw.
    It's possible, however, to clear 400 points on a 10 man squad with a transport.
    There does seem to be a ton of possible army lists that can be built out of it though, and that's really exciting, but at the end of the day they're just marines and nothing has jumped off the page as 'wtf...OP' (yet)

    Q: What do the melee obliterators get weapon-wise?
    Are they 2w with a 2+ / 5++?

    A: str5 / t5, 2+ / 5++, Once per turn can combination of 2:
    power weapon, power fist, lightning claw
    Each mauler chooses individually.

    Q: Have the marks changed in what they do to normal squads?
    Undivided still reroll morale tests?
    Khorne still +1 A?
    Tzeentch still +1 invuln save?
    Nurgle still +1 T?
    Slaanesh still +1 I?
    Does an undivided lord give any benefit to his army?
    Can you give marks to vehicles and, if so, then what is an example effect?
    Can you still buy specific psychic powers or are they all randomly selected from certain disciplines?
    Did Thousand Sons go back to 2W and no invuln save like 3.5 or are they still 1W with a 4++?
    Can chaos marine squads combat squad?

    A: Marks are the same.
    Undivided Lords get Inspiring Presence command trait, and improved reserve manipulation.
    Dedicated transports get the mark of the unit they're bought for, for free. Only units with the same mark can ride in it, (so be careful).
    Undivided vehicles can transport anyone.
    Other vehicles may buy them. An example would be the mark of khorne on a predator, which gives it a dozer blade at no additional cost, and allows it to roll d6 wounds on a unit it tank shocks
    Psychic powers are rolled.
    Rubric marines are 1W, 4++

    Q: Drop pods?

    A: No drop pods

    Q: How many Troop options are there? Is it just basic CSM and Cultists?

    A: CSM and Cultists.
    Cult units become troops with the right mark on your warlord.


    Q: Also, is the dragon thing the only flier in the Codex?

    A: Yes

    Q: What are the rules for the new flyer?
    Specifically:
    how does it take out other flyers?
    any ranged weaponry?
    armour values and hull points?
    base points cost?
    fast attack ur heavy support?

    A: It has a ranged attack
    12/11/10
    170
    Fast attack

    Q: Do iron warriors get any characters? What specials rules do they get?

    A: Nothing specifically, but there are war smiths who can restore hull points

    Q: What units are getting nerfed to oblivion and/or What units are getting buffed into every list?

    A: Daemonicly possessed vindicators I think will be in every list, with their ability to potentially regenerate destroyed weapons at start of the chaos player's turn.

    Q: What can you tell us about the Oblits and the Maulers? Specifically, are they both Heavy Support slots?

    A: Maulers are elites, Obliterators are heavy support. You can have both.

    Q: Woot! That's what I was hoping to hear. Does the new Daemon engine go into the Heavy support slot as well?

    A: the new siege unit is heavy support.

    Q: Can dreds take marks and if so are they cool

    A: Yes and yes. The mark of khorne for instance gives it Rage and a unique weapon option much-like blood talons except it's a giant rotary saw.

    Q: What has changed with the Plague Marines? How much are they now? I also hear they get poisoned weapons? Is that all weapons shooting and melee?

    A: They are 120 for 5, + 24 for more.
    Poisoned only in melee. Can throw their blight grenades to reduce enemy movement speed to 2d6 pick the highest, or if already rolling d6 for whatever reason (i.e. cover, charging) pick the lowest.
    Nothing for sacred number. Plague marines are now poison in CC. Can throw blight grenades

    Q: Hello good sir. I'd like to know some general info about possessed. Is there a way to move them around? Also, what makes them unique. Also, how big is the EOTG chart?

    A: The chart is 6 charts of 6 options.

    Q: Does the mark of Tzeentch still grant a Psyker level?
    What is the psyker level of a Rubric Squad's Sorcerer?
    Does he have to pay for his powers or are they included?
    What is the psyker level of an HQ Sorcerer?
    Can you increase this and how?
    Do all the sorcerors only get 1 power per psyker level?
    Is there an option to get extra powers (for the HQ and Rubric)?

    A: Thousand Son squads are rank 1
    HQ sorcerer are rank 1, can be upgraded to 2.
    Mark of Tzeench on an HQ is +1 (so you can upgrade all the way to rank 3)
    There is a piece of wargear that lets you reroll up to your mastery in dice after you have rolled, but only each dice once.

    Q: How many points is a Berzerker squad?
    Are there any new Land Raider variants? Or options to change the armament of the current Land Raider?
    What kind of stats does the Dragon have?
    How large can an Obliterator/Mauler unit be? Are they still able to teleport?
    Can CSM icons be used to prevent allied Daemons from scattering?
    That's all for the moment. Thanks again!

    A: Berzerkers are 105+21/berzerker
    5-20 in size.
    There is a new land raider, it's a lot like a crusader.
    already posted the dragon
    1-3. Maulers cannot deep strike, but are not slow and purposeful.
    Yes icons prevent scatter

    Q: What are the God's specific new Psychic powers tables?
    Did the named characters get point cost reductions and/orcool new abilities?
    Any new character, maybe from the Horus Heresy series?

    A: Most named characters are the same, but overall a point reduction. Abbadon is the same points and does not make terminators troops.

    Q: Is it true that there are NO new Special/Named Characters? Are there any old Special Characters coming back from previous Codices?
    Are Noise Marines getting any new weapons/toys?
    Do Thousand Sons still require a Sorcerer upgrade?
    Can Predators, Land Raiders, or any other tanks take Sonic/Slaanesh upgrades?
    Is there anything in the Codex that changes how the Allies Matrix behaves (ie; turning Imperial Guard into Brothers in Arms)?

    A: There are no new named characters.
    Thousand Sons come with an Aspiring Sorcerer in their basic 5 before adding more Rubric marines.
    There is a sound-based vehicle upgrade but it's more of a Word Bearers item than Slaanesh.
    I haven't read any special character adjusting the allies chart.

    Q: How is GW representing specific gods in armies? Do you get point reductions on Slaanesh marks if your HQ has one?
    Do Sorcerers have good buff/debuff powers? AKA the better type of psychic powers.

    A: The only impact on Marks is that HQ models make corresponding cult units Troops.
    There are 2 debuff spells in Nurgle and Slaanesh, 2 buff spells in Slaanesh.

    Q: Disappointed that Berzerkers are still so expensive. Have they gotten any better?

    A: Yeah I don't get why they are the same price as grey knights but can still get owned by them!

    Q: What is the points cost of the basic Chaos Marine? since other rumors point to a decrease in points.

    A: 70 for 5, 14 for each additional marine.
    Aspiring Champion is a 10 point upgrade.
    Come with bolter/bp/ccw
    For every 5 models in the squad you get a special weapon. If the squad is 10 or more, one model can exchange a flamer(5 pts) for a Heavy Bolter, meltagun(10 points) for an Autocannon or Missile Launcher or a plasmagun(15 points) for a Lascannon.
    Marks range from 10-50 points, Icons range from 10-40 points.

    Q: Does Kharn still hit his own people on a To-Hit roll of 1 (one of the more flavorful rules, imo)?
    Is there any downside to Typhus turning cultists to zombies?
    Was Ahriman shown some love and is he still 250 pts? Does he get any tricks other than psyker level 4?
    What type of ranged attacks does the new demon engine have?
    Can allied Chaos Daemons units be summoned to CSM icons?

    A: Kharne still hits friendly models.
    Zombie cultists aren't scoring and cannot be joined by Characters (even with the mark of nurgle)
    Ahriman is mastery 4, can cast multiple powers per turn, gets access to almost all lores and has a default psychic attack much like smite but longer range that he can use in addition to his normal psychic powers per turn.
    The siege engine has a melta blast template.
    Yes daemons can be summoned to your CSM icons if you have a dark apostle.

    Q: How many troops can our land raiders carry? Any variants or new special abilities/upgrades that are noteworthy?

    A: 12 for the basic, 16 for the new one.
    New one can ram fortifications and you can launch an assault on the occupants, except that you don't consolidate at the end, you remain locked in combat.
    If the enemy unit flees they immediately exit the terrain. If the door is blocked (by your land raider for instance), they count as having been caught ala Sweeping Advance

    Q: Do units come with a default icon (for deep-strike) or do you have to pay for one of the special ones?
    What are the effects/point costs of the icons for a normal unit of CSM and for Term's?

    A: No one comes with icons by default, cult troops get marks by default.
    Marks are the same, except Khorne which is Rage, not +1 attack and has a point decrease.
    Terminators pay 50% more. Taking an icon if you already have a mark costs an extra 20 points.

    Q: Does this mean Berzerkers are only one attack base?

    A: berzerkers are 2 attacks, rage, furious charge, frag and krak grenades, bolt pistol / khornate weapon (ap5 in close combat).
    They're 5 attacks at str5 ap5 each on the charge.
    They can also upgrade to have chainfists in the form of 2 handed chain-axes.

    Q: Are Traitor Guard in? Do they get Leman Russ squadrons? Do mind giving a breakdown of those units available?

    A: No traitor guard. Just cultists.

    Q: Any new main turret options for Predators?
    Do Bikers get any new toys, or are they pretty much just CSM on bikes?
    Overall, does the Codex seem to promote a mixed army, or does it feel like you can make decent mono-god lists? Are there any side benefits to sticking with one Chaos God?
    What's the Leadership of the Cultists? Typhus turns them into Zombies, but do any other Special Characters change them?

    A: No new turret options for predators.
    Bikes get nothing new, just CSM on bikes with combi-bolters instead of bolters.
    You can get away with a mono-god list, but at that point you should be using cult troops most likely.
    If you're adding havocs to your berzerker army, there's no real point in giving the havocs the mark of khorne for instance. In that sense you're varied.
    It's not like 3.5 where we'll see thousand son troops with nurgle vehicles to min-max.

    Q: How much do the different marks cost for a CSM squad?
    Is it a per model or per squad cost?
    How do the costs differ for Havocs and Termies?
    Per squad.

    A: CSM/Havocs/Raptors/Chosen pay the same cost. Termies pay more.

    Q: How are things looking for generic Undivided folks? Are they going to be just as competitive or is Cult still going to be where the money is?

    A: Undivided is a lot cheaper than cult marines. A lot.
    A. Lot.
    Playing undivided gives you many more bodies.

    Q: Does a Daemon Prince grant any bonuses to his army or is that a unique thing for lords (and sorc's)?

    A: He kicks *** and takes names. But otherwise, no.

    Q: Daemon Princes flying or jump if they have wings?
    Any way to get biker troops?
    What sort of anti-flyer is available?
    Can cultists do the platoon thing like IG?

    A: Daemon princes are jump if they have wings.
    No way to get bikers as troops.
    the flyer you get is retardedly good at blowing up things that are zooming.
    cultists cannot platoon, but you can take up to 30 of them in the first place.

    Q: If daemon weapons are simply ap 3 then why bother using them now. Do they have extraordinary abilities that are worth their expensive points cost now?

    A: they're pretty different now, you still wrestle with them. I think it's a matter of preference

    Q: The "Hatred: Space Marines" rule....is it ALL Space Marines (Chaos and Loyalist), just Loyalist, or just Vanilla?

    A: Just imperial loyalist.


    _________________
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